Best Fighting Angles
Best Fighting Angles- special effects and filmmaking
Hello, I'm a new member... Hope I can ask some good questions and give good replies!
Anyway, does anyone have good tips on what angles to get when choreographing a fighting scenario. I'm working on a movie where there are two enemies, and they are just going at it. I strive for unique and original moves, and I know that the angle is one of the most important factors of filming a fighting act.
Thanks for any replies you may give!
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FilmWEAPON
Here are some tips:
- Use angles that hide the fact that the hits don't really connect. Over the shoulder shots of either opponent works well for punches to the face.
- Use lots of coverage (same moves shot from different angles) in order to make the fight tighter if need be (or hide jump cuts). The more choices you have in editing, the better fight you'll come up with.
- Get close to your fighters from time to time. Too many amateurs use only wide shots.
- Try to make the fight original; if you can't think of some really cool moves, then keep the fight short. Think about pacing; vary the intensity and try to end with an explosive climax. There's nothing worse than a lane ending to a good fight.
I'm sure others will have more tips for you. Some likeastory members have grown into experts of fight scenes.
Good advice! One more thing: Be sure not to cross the line!
Welcome to like a story, glad to have ya! 
Welcome to the boards. We are glad to have you on for the ride. As far as angles, good places to look for references are Jackie Chan movies, especially Rush Hour and Who am I. Another good place to look is the karate kid, and Batman. Good luck to you, and again, welcome aboard.
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"May the Force be with you."
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Lets not forget "Enter the Dragon" or "Game of Death" Movieman!
as inportant as the angles is the editing you have to create a pace and rythim in order to keep the sequence exciting.it's probably not a good idea to stay on any one particular shot very long and avoid a lot of full length shots unless your trying to make a point. in one of Sam Fuller's films Richard Widmark is beating up a woman and he used a long shot with vurtually no camera movment in combination with large movment by the actors to create an extreme sense of violence. in many Jackie Chan movies quick cuts of medium and close up shots with a fair amount of camera movement and sparing amounts of long shots give those scenes an excitment and ungentcy. in Sam Peckenpaw's films, and some others, slow motion during fight sequences was used to convey the sense of pain and agony they were going thuogh. shots and editing depend on what emotional quality your trying to convey to an audiance
just sit down, what your favourite fight movie and think to yourself, what would i have done differently. remember, the key to being a good film maker is to be unique, and no one can pass that on to you, develop your own style, use your own creativness and your reward will be the audience when they see something that has come from your imagination no one elses
When I shoot fights, I have the action start at any place, but come to the camera. I also film low to the ground.
Keep your camera movin' at least thats the advice that rodriguiz gives in Rebel With out a Crew.
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Freedom never came for free, patriots are bleeding thier vains clean.
It is also a good idea to cut to different angles quikly to make the fight look more fast paced. And don't dwell on one angle too long, as capt. video said
-Chase
Just go out and rent...
1 jackie chan movie
1 mortal kombat movie
1 steven seeeeeegal movie
and that should help.......it did with my group......
If there is some music in the scene, or if you have a special music in mind try to make it look like the music was made for your film, if you don`t use your own music.
A good example of what not to do for a fight scene is old Star Trek episodes. The longs angles they use make it painfully obvious when they are using a stunt double in a wig. There are also a lot of blows that never connect.
One way to be sure you don't see an "airball" is to only have one character in shot. For example your villian throws a punch past the camera's field of view and you cut to your bloody hero stumbling back. Bridge the edit with the sound of impact.
Hope this helps.
ADOM
Thanks for all the replies, guys! Keep 'em coming!
By the way, my best friend, my brother and I just finished a movie today. It's called
Bright Fight (because it was all shot in daylight, and I couldn't think of anything better)!
It looked great. One of the punches looked so real, I had to convince myself it was fake after seeing it, since I was the one getting hit...I just didn't know we were so good at this! hehehe, j/k around, but the reason we were able to do this so well and realistic was because of you guys comments...thanks guys!
Oh, and I figured out another way to make punches and such look more real...ZOOM! In one scene, my enemy kneed me in the face, and it would of looked so fake if it weren't for the rapid movement and zoom of the camera, which went in perfect harmony with the take. So perfect!
I want you guys to know it's thanks to you. Thanks so much!
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FilmWEAPON
http://focusproductions.cjb.net
For truly astonishingly beautifully captured fight scenes, watch New Dragon Gate Inn by Tsui Hark. In my opinion, american cinematographers have NEVER been able to do a good looking fight scene, which is odd, thinking about how great music videos they make. Perhaps one should make a difference between these; MK didn't work. At all.
*If you're in for a truly realistic fight scene, watch Grosse Point Blank. Those hits sure seem to hurt. They're not overly athletic, and there's NO SPFX! Also, they're not ready for what to come next, which give it a sense of non-choreography, doing very well in this kind of movie.
*I'm not so sure about close-ups in fights. They really mostly seem to "cover up" for bad fighting. You don't see a close-up of Jackie's fists. Also, what they usually do, is that they film one exercised situation with two or three cameras, which makes it very easy to cut and make fluent.
*Don't exaggerate too much with angles, dollying and camera movement. Let the focus rest on the fighters and not the camerawork.
*Leave eventual grappling till after a punch-block-punch series, as in boxing. Less complex manouvers and more fast paced combos, or you'll end up with vast tempo problems.
I just want to second the vouch for Grosse Point Blank, which in my opinion:
a) Is a good movie
b) is not an action moive, rather a drama/comedy/romance kind of things, but -
c) got one really cool fighting scene (hand to hand), and also a couple of really nice shootouts (in the store and in the house).
What's cool about the fighting is that it is not just high/fast kick- and punchcombinations, but rather a change among the different distance that is usually covered in any martial arts system; They move from distant fighting (kicks) to closer fighting (punches) to grappling/infighting (chokes and jointlocks).
All in all it makes a really neat fighting sequence that could *almost* be for real. (What makes it utterly cool is that it is so well done in a moive of this kind).
As for angles; there isn't really that many changes in angles. What they do (if memory serves me right) is that they change the camera-distance according to the fighting distance; close-ups when it is grappling, etc. And when they change from on distance to another, they also change angle so that the action is best covered (which may include over shoulder shots to "hide" the non-hitting).
Anyway, watch it! It is a nice change from the usual film-fights (if You want somethgin unusual that is). Nice to see Benny "the Jet" again too :-)
Regards,
Rico
Bang on target, pal.
Another thing that must be added, though it makes me sound like the old nag I'm turning into (23) and though this isn't the subject, a fight scene is never interesting if there isn't any emotions envolved, and emotions only come when you've come to know a person, or in best cases, both fighters.
These emotions can be anger, vengeance (so overdone), fear (perhaps the best), pride, too-much-adrenaline, sorrow (which makes a rather slow and futile fighting style, I guess) or unsecurity. I'd play a lot with these, even if it's a comic or a purely actionbased fight scene.
(The most horrific, realistically violent and emotionally offensive fight scene I have bewitnessed is that from the HK movie Full Alert.) Sorry. I'm tutoring again...
One thing you should do before you film a complicated scene is storyboard it. You can't just shoot cool angles and edit them later, you have to know what you want and where you want it.
I usually plan out simple angles like to the side and facing dead on both targets, no stylistic stuff. But that is the way I do it, everybody has their own style.
I hope that I have helped you out a little.
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Never doubt the Red Stranger
watch some hong kong movies (esp. those directed by Stanley Tong, Jackie Chan and Samo Hung...those tend to have the best direction IMO), re-watch the fight scens alot, see what angles they use. They use alot of wide angle shots is one thing i notice.
-nick
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