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Author
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Topic: digital sound recorders
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Flemchuck
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posted 12-05-2000 02:08 AM
what's the best way to record audio, from sound effects to dialogue? is a mini disc recorder a good idea? |
Prism
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posted 12-05-2000 02:31 AM
Cassette is what I use. 
And I'm quite happy with the results.Isaiah ------------------
Isaiah, "Sound Guy" Eyre
www.iEyre.com |
dstepson
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posted 12-05-2000 09:02 AM
The best digital sound recorder is DAT. You can also get them with time code. |
Flemchuck
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posted 12-05-2000 10:56 AM
what is DAT? |
Prism
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posted 12-05-2000 11:06 AM
Digital Audio Tape. It's expensive, but it sounds really clean. Sony makes a couple of portable recorders which you could probably find at www.fullcompass.com Isaiah ------------------
Isaiah, "Sound Guy" Eyre
www.iEyre.com |
Flemchuck
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posted 12-05-2000 06:50 PM
ok, i don't want expensive. i jsut need something clean and better than cassette. no offense to your suggestions, there, prism, you homecoming king of the LAS gang (which i'm still not in).so this mini disk I've been hearin about... anyone wanna comment on it? has anyone ever used one?
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FilmWeapon
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posted 12-05-2000 08:46 PM
I have used mini-disks and mini-disk players in the past, and I must say, I'm pretty impressed with the results, but now I just use goldwave (Alot Easier). ------------------
FilmWEAPON
http://focusproductions.cjb.net |
Elurew
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posted 12-06-2000 05:15 PM
what do you mean you use goldwave? last i checked that was software and i don't see how a "but" relates that to a minidisc recorder... do you mean for the special effects?
Does goldwave clean up ambient noise in dialogue well?well, looking back...im gonna go out on a limb and assume that you were attempting to make a joke about using minidisks and players to make sound effects which i obviously didn't get...i feeeeeeel dum  [This message has been edited by Elurew (edited 12-06-2000).] |
Gamecat
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posted 12-08-2000 07:50 AM
You could concievably use goldwave and a laptop to record sound... |
Flemchuck
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posted 12-08-2000 08:22 PM
I don't see a joke anywhere. I'm with you then, elurew.Anyhow, I just bought Soundblaster Live 5.1. Not the platinum editoin, which for an extra hundred bucks gives you a .... wireless remote! like my computers really that far away... anyhow, i'm going to get a mini disc recorder. there were two options. that, or an mp3 recorder, and the mp3 thing is really expensive and pathetic. So mini disc it is. yeah, and the goldwave thing doesn't make any sense to me. It's software, right? |
Elurew
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posted 12-08-2000 08:58 PM
just be sure and think about if you're ready to start syncing sound everywhere....i've been considering this for the past 6 months now. I'm gonna borrow a friends minidisc player and do a small shoot and see how annoying the syncing gets...otherwise, its a new camera.you gotta weigh money vs. time
but remember that time is money (?) |
Flemchuck
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posted 12-10-2000 12:02 PM
what's "synching"? |
Gamecat
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posted 12-10-2000 04:58 PM
Syncing is when you take your audio and match it up to your video track. There are two types of film cameras. Crystal sync cameras and wild cameras. The crystal sync cams make sure that the fram rate is exactly whatever frame rate you choose. So If you shoot at 24fps (normal) it will make sure that it ALWAYS runns at 24fps. Wild cameras do not do this, so while they always will run close to 24fps they can possibly drift off a couple of frames. Doesn't sound like a big deal untill you try to match it with your audio after it has drifted a few times... Then you start to notice that perhaps your actors mouth isn't moving quite in time with the audio... Usually you can correct a lot of it ijn post, but it's harder and more time consuming then a crystal sync camera. |
Flemchuck
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posted 12-10-2000 10:00 PM
so synching doesn't matter much when we're talkin about sound recorders. its more of an issue with cameras, huh?well i dunno what my camera is in terms o wild or crystal. i'd imagine its wild, cuz it sucks at most everything. |
Elurew
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posted 12-11-2000 12:08 AM
That whole deal gamecat brought up (to my knowledge) refers to film cameras (hence the 24fps). Anyhoo, if you are using an external recording device and it is not directly recording to the camera, then you will have to sync things up. That is, im assuming you are doing this nle, you will capture your video, then your audio. After that, you get to go into an editing program and attempt to move the audio files to syncronize with the video. You will have to worry about this...BEWARE!!!!!!
and get a clapboard |
Gamecat
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posted 12-11-2000 11:45 AM
Well it does refer to audio as well... Analog equipment uses the same crystal sync method, while digital stuff (and digital cameras too) use something called timecode, which basically does the same thing only differently  What kind of camera do you have? Film cameras generally tend not to be crystal sync unless you paid a LOT for it  |
Elurew
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posted 12-11-2000 05:09 PM
yeah, so how could you use any special audio recorder to work with with a miniDV cam and have it synched up? It would be great to have a way to start the video and audio device simultaneously or at least with a time code readible after you transferred it to comp. |
Gamecat
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posted 12-11-2000 11:48 PM
Elurew, Huh? You lost me on that last one.. |
Flemchuck
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posted 12-12-2000 12:23 AM
Okay, I do not have a camera that is DV, nor has a microphone jack. I need to digitally record certain things, like sound effects and some voice overs. Synching, although the info was appriciated, really has nothing to do with anything i asked about.I bought a JVC gr920 last february because it doubles as a digital camera. It's generally crap, even though every magazine (when i say "every," i mean "videomaker") says its the best bang for your buck. The digital picture is only 72 dpi resolution, which sucks, and the picture of the video ain't too much to brag about either. it works for me, though, and I've done well with it. However, I've decided not to cheap out and buy the most "cost effective" mini disc recorder. If I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna do it right, and i found one with a built in PC interface and remote and mic. It's made by Sony, i dunno the model or anything. It's listed as 249.99, but with my Best Buy discount I get it for 196.76. So fifty bucks off sounds good enough for me to buy it. Its the most expensive one we carry. |
Elurew
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posted 12-12-2000 12:59 AM
kay, you're not gonna have to worry about the video or audio losing syncronization with each other....it'll just be a pain in the arse to, with each shot, find the correlating audio, and synchronize it with the speech in the first place. Of course, it depends how you shoot and how you intend on capturing.
Gamecat, forget my comment, i don't know what i was talking about.When you capture your footage onto the computer, you're going to have to recapture the correct audio, or in the case of the digital recorder, transfer it. After that, you find each piece of audio per shot and synchronize it with the correlating video. The video and audio won't automatically find each other :-( thus you have a pain and lots of work
OHH!!!! this is for sound effects and voice overs!!!! I thought you were doing this for dialogue and what not. In this case, you're right, synchronization ain't no biggie....but in which case, if you're just using it for those, why can't you just use your camera mic or get a mic and connect to your computer?
[This message has been edited by Elurew (edited 12-12-2000).] |
Red Five
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posted 12-13-2000 05:48 AM
Well, why couldn't you just use a laptop to record? Assuming you have some halfway decent recording software, you'll have an onboard sound mixer, VU meters, etc., and it's already in digital format (though captured by analogue...then again, anything with a minijack is still recording analogue). The bad news would be the amount of recording space would be limited to the free space on your hard drive (no popping in an extra tape, unless you have a ZIP drive or USB CD-R) and if the hard drive crashes, you lose everything. What else? How much would the laptop's sound card have to do with the recording capabilities? Anyone?Red Five |
Flemchuck
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posted 12-13-2000 11:45 AM
uh... that's a whole lotta expensive and not needed, my friend. I don't have a laptop nor do I want one.But I've been eyeing that mini disc recorder for some time now... will buy on next paycheck. |
Fastlou
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posted 12-16-2000 04:27 PM
I was thinking of going with MiniDisk for my audio, especially since I already have one ( a tiny little one that can still record) but some of my friends said the lossy compression on MiniDisk would make it sound bad when I put it into the film...Do you guys know how much worse minidisk sounds compared to dat when you're talking about recording things like dialogue? |
Flemchuck
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posted 12-18-2000 01:19 AM
I would think your friends are dirty dirty liars. hehehe.
anyhow, if anyone cares, i have decided not to buy a minidisc, or any recorder right now. Instead, i'm going to buy final draft 5 and work on my script a little more. then i'll do the other stuff.
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Gamecat
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posted 12-18-2000 10:07 AM
mini disks will not sound as clean as a dat since your friends are right, they DO use compression. HOWEVER, this should really only be noticable if you are an audio buff listening to music throught it. Dialog should sound just fine. |
Flemchuck
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posted 12-18-2000 04:10 PM
my friend once couldn't afford to go to a recording studio so his band recorded straight onto a mini disc. it sounded fine, everyone thought. |
SlipperyGlue
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posted 12-23-2000 04:15 AM
Most sound in your movies are added in after in post. If you have dialogue, most of the time its done indoors or standing or whatnot. Just use any old Stereo recorder. Have your sound guy record it on a good tape (hi bias) and have a good boom mic operator. If you are moving, however, just use the damn cassette in the camera. We all record onto VHS so, why go all fancy when the final product is going to be stereo? Unless your planning on adding Dolby Surround to your film and burning it onto VCD etc, why waste the time? As long as you have a good boom operator and a good sound board/mixer technician, the cameras line in/mic in is as good as any (as long as you edit the sound afterwards)Slippery Glue Productions
(tomorrows films, today) |
Elurew
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posted 12-23-2000 05:36 PM
but what if your cam don't got mic-in? |
Fastlou
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posted 12-24-2000 12:44 AM
I've done some test shots with the built in mic on the camera (just got the camera a few weeks ago) and was not so dissappointed with the sound quality so much as realize that for most shots an external mic would be necessary for proximity reasons.
That leaves two options, plug it into the camera, or record seperatly. If I choose to record seperately, for whatever reason, I want it to be as clean as possible. I am recordning digitally, and editing digitally, so if I decided I could make it dolby surround. I also am trying to have to do as little ADR as possible, and get the best sound I can during shoots. That leaves me with digital recording, comming back to the minidisk vs. dat issue. |
