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Author
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Topic: Mic for ambient?
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deaf to reason
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posted 02-04-2001 10:55 PM
What's a good mic for recording ambient sound on location? I don't want the most expensive mic out there, say under $80. Also should I record the ambient sound at the same time I record dialog with a mic mixer, or is it best to record them seperate? |
Prism
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posted 02-05-2001 01:12 AM
Well I had written a great long post in response when my bloody Netscape unexpectedly crashed on me without notice...Anyway, I basically was going to say that ambient sound is pretty inescapable, but you can add some color to your soundtrack by recording some ambient sound seperately. As for the mics, the Shure SM57 or SM58 dynamic mics are top-notch, and either one of them is about $80. Check out www.8thstreet.com or www.zzounds.com
Sometimes www.musiciansfriend.com will give you a free mic cable when you buy one (when they're having a special), so I'd recommend checking them out as well. They probably wouldn't be right for dialogue (a shotgun mic would be best) but they have a nice, clean, accurate sound. They probably aren't as sensitive as a good condenser mic, but most decent condensers are over $100. Hope I was helpful! Isaiah ------------------
Isaiah Eyre, Sound Guy "I don't know anything about music. In my line you don't have to." - Elvis Presley <Begin Shameless Self-Plug>
Visit iEyre.com!
</End Shamless Self-Plug> |
deaf to reason
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posted 02-05-2001 05:15 PM
I just bought a shotgun (atr55) for dialog. Now I need a mic for ambient. So I do need to record the two seprately? As in record the dialog and then record the ambient noise, or could I have both mics go through a mixer and record both at the same time? I'll look into the mics you mentioned. Thanks. |
Pheral
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posted 02-05-2001 06:02 PM
You can record ambience that way, and it will give your dialogue more spacial depth, or at least I think it does. You'll want to make sure, however, that your ambient channels don't overpower you primary dialogue channels. Start the ambience fader at zero and then slowly bring it up until its what you're looking (or listening) for aesthetically.As Prism says, its always desireable to record some ambience separately. Remember, if you only record ambience at the same time as when you're actually shooting action, then when you edit, every time you make a cut, you'll be cutting the ambience as well. With separately recorded ambience, you can lay it in as a separate audio track underneath your edited film, and it will really, really smooth the edits out aurally, meaning the cuts won't sound so abrupt. |
Prism
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posted 02-05-2001 06:19 PM
Pheral hit the nail right on the head.. It's easy to create a scene by cutting it into pieces when there's just dialogue, but then if you do that with lots of background noise, it'll be too obvious that you pasted it all together, which is why it's nice to have a background ambience track. If you can splurge a little, I'd suggest getting two identical mics and recording ambience in stereo - it really does wonders for your audio. All you need to do is plug them into a cassette recorder (or a reasonable facsimile like an MD recorder or DAT), one for the right and one for the left, and start recording! They're really fun to listen to on headphones when they're in stereo, because it's so realistic. If you'd rather keep things cheap and simple, I think Sony makes a very small stereo condenser mic with switchable patterns. I think you can get it for around $80. The fact that it uses a mini 1/8" stereo connector might make things more convenient for you (no need to carry around those heavy low impedance mic cables) ...so it might be worth looking into.
Look around at www.musiciansfriend.com or www.fullcompass.com - one or both of those places should carry it.Isaiah ------------------
Isaiah Eyre, Sound Guy "I don't know anything about music. In my line you don't have to." - Elvis Presley <Begin Shameless Self-Plug>
Visit iEyre.com!
</End Shamless Self-Plug> |
deaf to reason
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posted 02-06-2001 01:48 AM
Thanks a lot for the help guys. That cleared things up perfectly. |
RapierSFX
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posted 02-06-2001 02:56 AM
I have a different aspect to share with you. I create all my ambient sounds by hand, and then mix them into the final product. You can set up differently timed loops to speed up the process if you want. I have found that many times as stated above trying to record ambient sounds along with diolge and then splcing together the video reults in chopped background noise. I fix this by making it all myself. Then I lay it in, and it is smooth and seamless. I have found that my method allows me to be much more dynamic with the backround noise instead of being limited to simply lowering or raising the volume. You can cut out the noiser sounds if there is a particularly important piece of dialoge to make it more clear, while retaining the overall volume of the whole. |
Prism
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posted 02-06-2001 03:07 AM
Yeah, that's just what Pheral and I said.  Isaiah ------------------
Isaiah Eyre, Sound Guy "I don't know anything about music. In my line you don't have to." - Elvis Presley <Begin Shameless Self-Plug>
Visit iEyre.com!
</End Shamless Self-Plug> |
Sarge
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posted 02-06-2001 11:22 AM
Just a quick note in passing. Professional shoots usually record at least thirty seconds of room tone - ambient - on each tape. The editors absolutely need it, for all the reasons given above.
And for a good, all around room tone mike, check out the PZM at Radio Shack. It costs about $69 Canadian, and you can tape it to a wall, and get great coverage.Sarge |
deaf to reason
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posted 02-06-2001 03:22 PM
With your help I've decided to record the ambient sound seperate from everything else. It only makes sence... One question though, What does tapping the mic to a wall do? Is it better to tape it to a wall rather than just have it sitting in the room? |
Prism
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posted 02-06-2001 03:51 PM
Well, Sarge suggested doing that with a PZM mic, which is specifically made for that kind of technique. With an ordinary mic, you'd probably want to just attach it to a stand and place it in the room where you think it sounds best. (Stereo always sounds best, but mono will work just fine.)Isaiah |
Pheral
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posted 02-06-2001 05:45 PM
The reason you tape the PZM to a wall (or ceiling, any flat surface) is that the Pressure Zone design picks up the reflection of sound off of that flat surface, rather than being pointed right at whatever the sound source is. It picks up all of the reflections equally, which is why is is such a good ambient mic. For all intents and purposes, it has a pickup pattern that is a half sphere.[This message has been edited by Pheral (edited 02-06-2001).] |
Sarge
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posted 02-07-2001 05:39 PM
Hey, Prism, how's it going? Fine explanation (you, too Pheral). Look forward to making sound decisions with you guys.Sarge |
Andius Rex
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posted 02-09-2001 09:36 PM
A shotgun will work just fine for room tone, if you have one. If not, then a Shure sm57 or sm58 should work good as well, and they're both common and relatively cheap. As for how to record it, I'd just use the mic that you record dialog with. Record ambience and room tone all through the same mic and onto the same track on your recorder, and at the same time. After you're done shooting the dialog, record about 30 seconds of pure room tone. It will come in handy during the editing process. A great book to read on this subject is "Producing Great Sound for Digital Video" by Jay Rose. It covers your question, and hundreds of others that you may or may not run into. You can pick it up at Amazon.com. Anyway, hope I helped------------------
Andrew Simpson
Big Hurt Productions | |
