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Author
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Topic: new method of doing bullet hits? mechanical energy...
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admiral
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posted 09-17-1998 11:36 PM
I've been following the squibs vs. compressed-air (or insect sprayer) argument for creating bullet hits for a little while now. Both of these methods have their advantages and disadvantages. For example, the compressed air method is safer, but that tubing is a pain in the arse.
So I was thinking: is there any other way? Could we somehow use mechanically restrained potential energy to deliver the illusion of the impact? I've been trying to imagine how this could be done and I think we could base a non-explosive squib design on the workings of a... mouse-trap.I haven't really figured out all the details but a mouse-trap inspired device could be triggered by the pull of a string (hidden under the clothing and up the sleeve of the actor). The release of the mechanism would abruptly compress a blood filled small-sized bladder. The movement of the mechanism would create the illusion of the hit and some blood would fly out through a pre-cut hole in the shirt. Think about it! A reusable, non-clumsy mechanism (no insect sprayer, no compressed air bottle, no explosives -- just a mouse trap, a small bladder, some tape and blood). I haven't tested this yet, but I'm sure it could work. I you do try it, or think of any alternate method, please post your results.
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Wayne
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posted 09-17-1998 11:50 PM
I think the mouse trap powered squib would be a little painful on the fingers and the part of the body you want the bullet effect to happen on. I've got a slightly different idea that may be safe, somewhat easy and (like the name of the forum) low budget.
What about a tube with a pressure pump like on a blood pressure pump that leads from the actor's hand to the bullet wound. The pump would cause a squib at the effect sight to pressurize and burst. This method could be used on hard to squib places like maybe the face and neck area where an explosive squib would be unsafe.
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ajay
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posted 09-21-1998 01:53 PM
instead of a bug sprayer i use a small Co2 cardridge trigger ed by the actor
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gore master
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posted 09-21-1998 03:37 PM
A squib can(and has been) used on the neck area. It is attached to a matal plate just like other hit. This time however you must make a full size neck appliance for the person. A space is made in the appliance for the squib and plate to fit. The appliance is placed on and blood is injected into the area
around the squib. That's how neck shots are done.
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Orreo
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posted 09-21-1998 06:18 PM
I.V. Tubing... I just happen to be a medic with the National Guard and for our "realistic" medevacs and Mass Casualty scenarios we use (not for bullet hits, but could be applied for such) I.V. tubing attached to the end of a 10cc syringe. Works wonders for oozing blood and is usually long enough that it can be put anywhere on the body and still operated by the "actor." We have an project in February with Sappers... i've got an Idea how to do bullet hits, and I'm going to rig the devices and let you know how they work. Since I'm in charge of training for the Med Section, that's my job  Let me look through the moulage books and see what I can find. (I realize you're looking for the "action" bullet hits, there may be something about that too. you never know [This message has been edited by Orreo (edited 09-21-98).]
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gore master
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posted 09-21-1998 09:32 PM
No offense orreo, but blood tubing attached to a syringe is NOT a new thing. Everyone knows about using YE OLD BLOOD TUBING. It has been used for ages by everyone.
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Orreo
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posted 09-21-1998 10:29 PM
gore master, I never said it wasn't used by others What I was introducing was a small tubing (about 3-5mm in diameter, usually) that is able to take a high amount of pressure, to the people on this board. Now, the only part I don't have a solution to is the high pressure aparattus that would blow the "blood" out to look like a bullet hit. For training purposes, I can't use anything that would give away WHO is going to be hit, and therefore no bugsprayer. I also can't afford a lawsuit, not many people can, so therefore no squibs... I don't need a real accident during training or any other time I hope this clears up what I wrote, I was "thinking out loud" sorry
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Wayne
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posted 09-21-1998 11:02 PM
Hey Orreo, you know what an atropine injector is right? Maybe that kind of set up could be used. For those who don't know what an atropine injector is it's a spring loaded syringe that automatically injects a chemical into a person. They showed this device in "The Rock" but didn't uses it correctly. It is not supposed to be plunged into the chest, it's supposed to be jabbed into the leg. But anyway this injector could be connected to the I.V. tubing and strapped to the actors wrist. Then the actor could activate the device like Spiderman would shoot webbing. Obviously the chemical that is in the injector would be taken out. Its poisonous if you are don't need it. But that is a different story.
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Orreo
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posted 09-22-1998 06:07 PM
Good idea Wayne, but the injectors can't be refilled, there may be some way to utilize that thought with another system... Remember if you use anything outside of the IV tubing (such as a syringe) and try and "plunge" it too fast then they will disconnect... Maybe superglue would work?! hmm... There may be a way.you're right about the atropine injector and that's what I said when I watched it with my wife and that's what a Company said when they saw it on their night out
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ADOM
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posted 09-23-1998 10:06 AM
If a good seal between the syringe and the tubing is what you need to speed things up try weather sealer or liquid gasket (for cars). Pretty stick stuff and can stop an oil leak on an `81 Ford. It should be able to take the pressure of the a quickly squeezed syringe. If I remember correctly it's cheap enough to try.ADOM
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Wayne
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posted 09-23-1998 04:03 PM
Orreo they've got atropine trainers that don't have anything in them and can be recocked. Maybe a trainer could be filled with blood, superglued or duct taped to the IV tubing. Or the idea the the atropine injector could be used on a normal syringe. Maybe a short spring could be placed around the plundger so that when the plundger is pulled up the spring will bring it back down. If that plundger had a trigger maybe that would work. I was also thinking about the blood consistency. It would have to be pretty viscous, almost watery to get through the tubing then explode out of the bullet wound.
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Orreo
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posted 09-23-1998 05:30 PM
Yeah they do have trainers, but they aren't able to contain liquid However with the blood item... I was thinking that you could put the blood in the IV tubing, thereby eliminating a lot of resevior space... That means that whatever propels the blood can be fast and a syringe would be fine, IF it could be moved fast enough... Move on to something else at the bottom if you can attach the IV tubing to it. This could be most anything... The problem is providing enough force to push the blood out to look like a bullet wound. I've got some springs and cases that I'm going to mess around with that could be recocked and reused... Let me work with them for a few days and let you know what happens. if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.ADOM: Didn't think about it but gasket sealer, silicone or even pipe glue, rubber glue, etc. would work fine too.
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Wayne
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posted 09-23-1998 06:02 PM
I have another idea too. Ya ever try putting an alkaseltser tablet in a plastic bottle with water. After a few seconds it'll explode. Maybe a squib with a peice of a tablet in a blood solution could work. Obviously the effect could not be activated on command, but when edited in afterward it would probably good. The only thing that would look cheezy would be the white foam, but if the blood solution is red enough it would look right.
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Mike Walling
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posted 09-24-1998 10:41 PM
Anyone ever try using a double action pneumatic air cylinder, fill the top of the cylinder with blood and use air to push the rod up spraying the blood everywere.Mike
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Wayne
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posted 09-25-1998 12:48 AM
Does that method create the mini explosion of blood and debris of a movie bullet hit?
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