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Author
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Topic: Man getting face ripped appart
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SilverbladeX
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posted 03-17-2000 08:52 PM
Ok, for this quick trailer i'm producing for high school, there is a quick scence where this guy get's his head shoved into a running lawn-mower blade and his head is completly rippedappart and guts flying everywhere. I need to find a way to easily and cheaply acchive this. Any help would really help.PS- the head can't be completly demolished because the guy actualkly survives this, well kinda, he becomes a living dead corpse. I posted a question on how to do this on the make-up form. ------------------
Mess with the best,
Die like the rest...
-Hackers |
Jeff F
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posted 03-19-2000 01:34 AM
This could be accomplished with special FX make up, but it is also a mechanical prop question. It can be done with nothing more than fake blood (and prhaps something to represent chopped up flesh), which is traditionally considered make up, although it could be considered a physical special effect here. Once you move further into special effects, the lines between the disciplines become blurry, as many different technologies begin to overlap.Obviously, the lawn mover can not have a blade in it and be running - this is dangerous beyond stupid. A long shot with the Lawn mover covering the face as it is being thrust into the supposedly spinning blades will allow a simple way to do the effect. Remove the blade from the underside of the mover and as much else as you are able to. For the shot, fling blood and some latex rubber guts onto the victims head and the attacker. This can be hidden in the empty base of the mower and flung onto the actors. A small catapult-like device could be used, or a compressed air rig blowing open a weakly sealed bag, or a balloon or two could be concealed and popped by one of the actors. Whatever the method, make sure the victim actor has his/her eyes shut WELL before the blood/grue is released. No need to have to shut down production and run your actor to the emergency room to have their eyes flushed out! Safety first, last, and always. ------------------
Jeff F - Magic and FX
Amazing the Masses [This message has been edited by Jeff F (edited 03-19-2000).] |
SilverbladeX
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posted 03-19-2000 07:32 PM
Would it be possible to show a shot from behind where the attacker is holding like a dummy head filled with fake guts and stuff and really puts it in the blades? or do u think thats too dangerious? |
gore master
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posted 03-19-2000 08:45 PM
I didn't answer this one earlier because I was unclear about what angle it would be shown and how much was shown. The dummy idea could work well. Have the person hold the dummy by the back of the shirt and carefully push the front of it's face against the blades. IF the person's face will not be visible(as in the back of the head will only be seen) you can make a head shaped sculpture and make a mold from it. In this mold you can either use slush latex. Slosh it around inside to coat the edges and give a good skin. Now take some clay and make a thin covering over the face. Coat the clay and entire inside with vaseline. Pour plaster into this. When dry remove the plaster core. Dig the clay out and put the plaster back in.
Now there will be a space between the face part of the skin and the plaster. Blood can be injected into this space. When pushed against the spinning blades it will rip apart nicely and spray blood all over the place.
Jeff's ideas are real good as well. Just make it a quick cut and you can probably animate the spinning blades(ala dawn of the dead).
good luck. |
Jeff F
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posted 03-20-2000 09:03 AM
A sharp lawnmover blade can remove toes .... or fingers!I would be reluctant to shove a prop into a running blade unless it were dulled down and rounded, reducing the risk to merely broken fingers. A very soft gelatine head or face could be torn apart easily by a safely dulled blade through sheer impact. ------------------
Jeff F - Magic and FX
Amazing the Masses |
gore master
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posted 03-20-2000 01:25 PM
So can the slush latex skin. The idea I gave would work. Like I said hold the dummy by the skirt. Hold it lower so it is hard to put you fingers in. Just be very craefull. If your fingers get to close, let go of the dummy and jerk your hand away. If extreme care is taken
it can be done with no injury. |
EricM
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posted 03-20-2000 07:25 PM
Yikes, you guys! In the past I have lit my hand on fire, held on to an exploding fire cracker and slamed my fingers in a door, but I would not stick my hands anyware near a spinning lawn mower blade, dull or other wise.
At the very least I would suggest you also make a fake hand to push the head into the blades. If your killer is wearing gloves then it will be quite easy.
Still, I'm not so sure you should have people standing around while you shove things into spinning blades. |
gore master
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posted 03-20-2000 08:14 PM
Well the fake hand would be a great idea. But I am just so confused as to why no one can visualize this and see how to hold a dummy and lower it so the face is skinned off. Pretty sad if you ask me. I know safety is in mind but even after my explaining it twice no one can get a visual. |
crazy lou
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posted 03-20-2000 10:35 PM
i know what you're talking about gore, but even with the name CRAZY LOU, i wouldn't do it. It seems an unnecessary risk, like smoking at a gas station while opening your gastank  there's got to be an easier way, maybe to stick the dummy in a hole in the ground so that the face is at the right angle, and maybe put something behind the lawnmower to protect the feet and shins.
later
Tom
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SilverbladeX
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posted 03-20-2000 10:55 PM
Well as wonderfule as it is to listen to you people fight, i need an answer quick because i'm scheduled to shoot this scene in 3 days.------------------
Mess with the best,
Die like the rest...
-Hackers |
gore master
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posted 03-20-2000 10:56 PM
crazy lou,
how'd you find out about the gas station thing? anyway, yes it can be risky. I was thinking about this earlier and came up with this answer.
I may be able to visualize it and do it carefully, but that doesn't mean everyone else can. I'll just have to accept that.
The fake arm would be a good idea. If I were doing it the only risk I would be thinking about is if the head goes to far down, and little bits of plaster are torn apart and sent airborne(this is still a small risk for me but a risj none the less). Protective wear you be worn(something to protect the face, eye wear, long pant and shirt, gloves). keep the crew at a safe distance. If you do it this way you can make 2 heads. You already have the mold so why not. Test it once by attaching something to the back or clothing(like a pole) that you can use to lower the face against the blades. Since only the front of the face is supposed to be skimmed away the point shouldn't be to just shove the hole head into the blades, savagely
(and carelessly).
I also said that jeff's original idea would work as well. It all depends on which one you want to do and can do safely. I suggested mine because it is the one which would look most convincing. It all depends on how carefull you can be. I also coordinate fights and suck so things like this I can do easily without hurting myself(unless I am careless or am not clear headed). The best route would be to use a fake arm to lower the face to the blades. |
gore master
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posted 03-20-2000 11:33 PM
P.S. first off I would not say we're fighting. It's really not that heated. And second, with all due respect it isn't responsible to figure out how to do a complicated effect a week or 2 before your supposed to film. For some of us who are fx artist or make-up fx artists it's ok because that's more than enough time to do it. But for someone who does this because no one else can and doesn't have that much experience, you need to give yourself more time if need be. |
Andy
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posted 03-21-2000 01:06 AM
In the James Bond movie Tomorrow Never Dies, theres a scene where James bond and another spy jump over the spinning blades of a helicopter with a moter bike. There were no blades during filming.. they were added in during post. Why couldn't the blades be added of the lawnmower after as well?Although i'm clueless how to easily destroy a dummy without real blades.. =) ------------------
Andy Kay
Digital Entertainment
infernaldomain@hotmail.com
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crazy lou
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posted 03-21-2000 01:13 AM
i havent been in a fight for more then 14 years, thats more then half my life. i just was saying that for the majority of this board, which is probably in the 13-18 age group might find that a bit dangerous, as i do. I make (or at least try to) my living with my hands, and wouldn't want to jeapordize them if i could safely find an alternative.I appreciate all the help and good ideas on this board, as well as the bad ideas that have appeared over the few years that i've known about this board (and i am NOT saying that any of these posts are bad ideas, just that there have been bad ideas in the past)they make figuring out how to do an effect all that much easier. I do think that Gore knows what hes talking about, i just have a grayer line when it comes to makeup. I like the idea of coming here 24/7 with an idea and getting answers and feedback on it, its like virtual brainstorming, which is a great way to get things figured out. I have opinions like everyone else in this world, except zombie's and i express them when i think that i (as a member of whatever group people would place me in) am getting the shaft so to speak. I dont always do the right things but i try my damndest to do them. i will provide multiple character witness if you like.
ok with that said, i agree with goremaster on the fact that you have to start filming in a week or two and you dont know how you're going to pull something off. Most stuff gets a while of planning and testing, so that if all goes well, that one time you need it to it will.
the best way is the easiest most of the time, if i were in your shoes i'd think about gore's idea, or a variation based on that later
Tom hope i didnt step on too many toes |
gore master
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posted 03-21-2000 01:34 AM
I feel the same way that you do lou(about this board that is). That's Why I like coming here. Some people might not know it but I like helping and teaching people about this stuff. probably the best way to accomplish my effect would be with a fake hand and arm that can be attached to part of the dummy. Make the space in the face a little bit large so the plaster won't be breaking off as easily.
You can also make a lit in the face to add the blood and tissue paper for a really great effect. Then seal it up with pros adhesive or latex. Make the arm attached with a rod or pole in the center so the person can stand a bit away and use the end of the long pull to lower the face to the blades. The person should have the protective wear I talked about and the camera should be at a safe distance. IF you can and want to you can put a piece of plexi-glass or other material in from of the camera. If the dummy is dropped and the hole head just falls into the blades it's more likely to jam than anything. Either way, take the precautions and it should be fairly safe. good luck.p.s. thanks lou [This message has been edited by gore master (edited 03-21-2000).] |
SilverbladeX
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posted 03-21-2000 08:22 PM
Ya i agree and to start, origionally, this scene was never in the script but some asswipe had this GREAT idea and was so dam persistant that we just gave in a added it to shut him up. That's why i'm soooo late in time. Secondly, i think i'll go for the safe but realsitic effect. I'll get a real goy to get his face shoved in a lawn mower and then add digital blades, sound effects and guts/blood. |
gore master
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posted 03-21-2000 10:15 PM
I understand. Digital and cg gore can only work so much. for this I would not do it. Use a rigging to spray blood out and on the inside of the lawnmower. |
gore master
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posted 03-21-2000 10:18 PM
Also another idea. Instead of creating a compressed air rigging, if the back of the person's head is to the camera you can do the following:
Put a good amount of blood in the person's mouth. Have them swish it around a bit. When their face is shoved to the blades(which aren't really there) they can spit it out in a way that will splatter all over the inside of the lawnmower. You can add a little bit of spray with cg to spruce it up a little bit. |
