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Author
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Topic: Realistic Bullet Hits
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Suspiria
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posted 03-20-2000 04:25 PM
Ok, heres the links I was talking about...I started a new thread so that maybe we could get some comments on how this was done....clearly it uses some CG but not sure if its all CG.... Lets hear your opinions... And please be warned, minors should not view these links, they contain nudity and are pretty graphic. I just think since this is a special effects forum it should be OK to post them because we are looking at the effect and not the nudity.
---link removed it no longer goes to site discussed-- There is also a headshot one too but gotta find it...when I do I will post it. |
Mr. Sable
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posted 03-21-2000 10:20 AM
This was NOT done with CGI. It was some very good makeup effects work.It was done the same as the head hit on Leon in Bladerunner, but with a twist (blood bladders were added). The entry wound was made with either latex or mortician's wax. There was a blood bladder under the "Skin". the wounds were plugged like a cork on a string. Monofilament (common fishing line) was used to yank the plugs out of the "Skin" and a small amount of blood leaked out from inside the bladder. The reason you don't see the monofilament (unless you watch the hit frame by frame) is because it was VIBRATING. Cameras only shoot one frame or field at a time, so something that is more or less clear to begin with becomes totally invisible when vibrated. Watch it again frame by frame and watch Leon's head hit in Bladerunner frame by frame and you'll see how it's done. By the way, that's some F***in' TWISTED footage- and not in any good sense of the word TWISTED. |
Suspiria
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posted 03-21-2000 11:26 AM
Well I agree and disagree. The way the blood drips looks like it must come from some kind of blood pack, but the bullet trail and possibly the blood spray I think use CGI.Whats your opinion GoreMaster? You seem pretty knowledgable about these kind of things. |
SeerSavant
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posted 03-21-2000 11:30 AM
That is without a doubt some of the most realistic gunshot wounds I have seen in a long time.
Where did you find them? Also, they are eerily realistic to the point where I went and watched them over and over again. If the gunman and victims had acted better, I probably would have felt like this was too real, but the reactions of all involved seemed a bit casual and the blood smear on the wall seemed... Well, I think a bit of spray before she fell back and slid would have been more effective. Still,
where did you find them? |
Mr. Sable
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posted 03-21-2000 01:07 PM
Studying this footage frame by frame (which is something you should all do all the time to study effects techniques), I find the frames to be IDENTICAL to the frame by frame analysis of Leon's head hit in Bladerunner. 1982! BEFORE even semi-realistic CGI existed!the most simplest, most obvious answer is often the right one. |
gore master
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posted 03-21-2000 02:07 PM
I confess I am not able to view mpg files on this computer for some reason. I really wish I could see them though. From the sound of it it might have been a DAWN OF THE DEAD trick. The skin painted black and a button attached to monofilament under a blob of derma wax. From what it sounds it was NOT a latex bladder used to create the bleeding. But rather a little bit of tubing concealed in the wax. For bladder bleeding effects check out movie like day of the dead. When the blood gushes or spurts from a wound, it's a bladder. Latex bladders help make blood(or other fluids) gush and spurt more. If anyone can do something so I can see these clips PLEASE do so. I'll love you forever! |
Suspiria
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posted 03-21-2000 02:31 PM
SeerSavant:
These are from a company that makes videos like this for sickos to get off on.Gore Master:
Go here for an MPG to AVI converter...
http://www.gromada.com/download_mpav.html |
Brien
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posted 03-21-2000 05:12 PM
I am going to have to disagree. The smear on the wall was a blood pack. The actual hits were CG. Well done though, had to look a couple of times. |
Mr. Sable
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posted 03-21-2000 05:51 PM
The smear on the back was done with a "blood" soaked sponge. No CG.I don't think tubing was used either, the chick was naked and seen from the ankles up. Plus she moved around too much for there to be tubing. |
gore master
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posted 03-21-2000 05:55 PM
People can move around when rigged with tubing if done right. I have concealed tubing running to the forehead and back behind the head. It can be hidden in the hair then taped onto different parts on the back. |
Mr. Sable
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posted 03-21-2000 06:13 PM
The blood didn't gush, it trickled. But I can see what you mean. That could've been used in this footage. But there was no CG. Honest! |
gore master
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posted 03-21-2000 07:47 PM
First of all I'm going to have to say they were CG. The avi conversions were slow but I could see them. Truthfully they weren't all that great. The bullet holes just looked like black holes painted onto the image when I looked at them. The blood trickles looked like they might have been painted as well(I've done something similar in paintshop pro). Really of done much better things with derma wax. I have a few pictures on my comp of a bullet hole I created in a woman's forehead and one in her shoulder. They actually looked very lifelike. The looked like deep burnt holes in the flesh(all the way through). I thought these clips would make my work look like nothing but they didn't really comes close. |
Suspiria
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posted 03-22-2000 09:49 AM
I don't know, I think is was pretty well done. Maybe the Avi version wasn't too clear but if you watch it frame by frame, the parts where the bullets go in actually move inward and the bloodspray was a nice added effect. I thought it looked more realistic then squib bullet hits.
Also the bullet that hits her right breast makes her breast lift upward showing some kind of force.I guess the main reason I wanted to show you guys this is because if it is done with CG then this is a cheap and safe alternative to doing bullet hits(if you can perfect it). Also I read an article a while back interviewing the guy that made these, if I find it I will post it because he explains how it was done, I just can't remember.
I will also post the headshot when I find it. |
gore master
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posted 03-22-2000 03:06 PM
I didn't see the spray. damn those avi's were slow! They were decent, but I wouldn't call them realistic enough to be SNUFF. I've seen some bare chest SQUIB hits which look very accurate. Did you see the night of the living
dead remake where the bald zombie is blasted 3 times? That was actually very accurate. |
Suspiria
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posted 03-22-2000 03:31 PM
Actually I have that movie, I'll pop it in tonight and check it out, its been a while since I seen it. I was looking for something that had bare skin squib effects.Too bad the AVI quality is bad after the mpg is converted, the bloodspray
is what I like best about these 2 clips. |
Mr. Sable
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posted 03-22-2000 03:32 PM
I think the Zombie in Savini's version of "Night of the Living Dead" was done in with CGI, but the naked chick in the above referenced footage was done "conventionally" / In camera. |
gore master
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posted 03-22-2000 03:56 PM
What do you mean exactly? the skin bullet hits were done with squibs beneath a foam rubber chest with blood injected into the space around the charge. I had someone who had seen bullets hit bare skin before(in real life) to evaluate it. He said the only thing which wasn't lifelike about that scene was when it was shot in the head there was no exit wound(which was cut from the R version). |
Mr. Sable
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posted 03-22-2000 04:35 PM
I guess I thought wrong.The naked chick footage looked very much like the zombie hit effect, so I'm inclined to believe there's no CG in any of this footage we're talking about. Goremaster: Leon's death in Bladerunner- do you agree? I've designed an effect like the one I described above, but with an electric (mini pyro) squib exit wound. The entry wound is done with the fishline, which is jerked by a rat trap. On the rat trap is an electrical contact which closes the circuit when the trap closes. The whole rig is mounted on one of them back massaging bug guys (to vibrate and blur the fish line), which is gaffe taped to a C-stand. Think that'd work? |
colddish
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posted 03-22-2000 04:54 PM
This is deffinately a good old pull gag using latex skin cover, ejecting blood under the latex and pulling the plug that is attatched to the monofilament line. Very nice hits....the clear give away, besides the terrible performance, is that there are no exit wounds that would have most probably entered the wall behind the girl leaving some secondary entrance wounds in the wall itself. |
gore master
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posted 03-22-2000 05:03 PM
That's exactly what I thought was wrong with the second one. no exit, just a smear on the wall. Leon's death was ok, the make-up underneath the pull-off appliance coulda used more work but not bad. The problem with that scene IMO was leon's reaction to it. He should have snapped his head a little more. Same with these clips, the acting wasn't good enough. Other than that they were decent effects which worked. |
gore master
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posted 03-22-2000 05:03 PM
That's exactly what I thought was wrong with the second one. no exit, just a smear on the wall. Leon's death was ok, the make-up underneath the pull-off appliance coulda used more work but not bad. The problem with that scene IMO was leon's reaction to it. He should have snapped his head a little more. Same with these clips, the acting wasn't good enough. Other than that they were decent effects which worked. |
Mr. Sable
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posted 03-22-2000 06:08 PM
Are you guys stuttering, or should I just lay off the absinthe? |
gore master
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posted 03-22-2000 07:20 PM
I think it's the drugs  PROZAC TIME! |
Brien
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posted 03-23-2000 09:20 AM
If you watch the video, there is a little detail which I believe tells me that it is done with CG, at least the initial hits. For one, the shin moves inward when the bullets hit the girl near the stairs. Easy done by distort the skin in a cg program. The second thing that caught my eye was the girl that get hit in the stomach, the blood runs down to her panties but nothing ever soaks in. The blood just ceases to exist when it hits her panties. The front of the panties were lace so even if the blood flowed under the waistband, it would at least soak the lace or be visible. But it isn't. Not too mention the amount of skin showing and how thin the girls were, nowhere to hide the appliances.
Definately CG.Brien |
Suspiria
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posted 03-23-2000 09:25 AM
Good eye, I noticed the same thing and was about to post that. The blood drips fast but stops before it hit her panties. Also look at the blood spray frame by frame....it lacks depth and appears sort of 2D.Anyways Im pretty convinced its done with CG. |
Mr. Sable
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posted 03-23-2000 10:29 AM
At least you said WHY you thought that. I'll check it out again.What about my physical effect idea. Think it'd work? |
Suspiria
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posted 03-23-2000 12:16 PM
Yup, I think your idea would work. I actually seen something like you explained on a TV show a while ago. Some special effects guy was demonstrating tricks of the trade and did a variation of what you explained and labeled it as his signature way for doing bullet hits. |
doom1701
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posted 03-23-2000 01:36 PM
I'm leaning towards CG because:1. The blood mist after the hit seemed identical on each hit (the second clip showed this best). Like they took a "spray" clip, colored it red, and overlayed it. 2. The bullet holes seemed to move around just slightly. This seemed most noticeable on the second clip, when she is shot in the right breast. The hole seemed to get closer and further from her nipple (I swear, that's the only reason I was staring ) I also noticed the hole in the middle seemed to move slightly. No matter what, this was some pretty good work. I especially like how the second girl jiggled herself in time with the hits (because of the good acting, of course). ------------------
TL
daa Productions Nobody lives forever, so you might as well go out with a good caffeine buzz... There's always hope, because it's the one thing that they haven't figured out how to kill yet... |
gore master
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posted 03-23-2000 02:21 PM
I finally got the clips working properly. really people these bullet hits are quite innacurate and a lot of it looks so animated.
Well first off the woman shot 3 times and smearing blood against the wall was HORRIBLE. the other one I kinda liked. Except the blood spray from the first hit. The other 2 were ok because it was harder to tell and looked good CINEMATICLY. the last bullet hit to the chest would have been perfect if there were a puff of smoke instead of that animated blood spray. |
gore master
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posted 03-23-2000 02:23 PM
P.S. brien, saying there's no room to hide an appliance is ridiculous. I could and so could any decent fx make-up artist. |
SeerSavant
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posted 03-23-2000 02:41 PM
In reviewing the clips again, I would have to say, No CGI. Goremaster is right, a decent fx man could do this, with a thin pouch of blood under a latex 'second skin' or blood piping, hidden under a breast and into the cloth on the first one and for the abdomen shots, down into the panties and around to the back of the leg.
Question, where did these clips come from? What movie/site? Or was it just something found by chance?
Also, that the clips may even be remotely considered snuff is negated by the atrocious acting by all in the clips.
I mean, cmon! I've seen more shock in a chick breaking a nail. And no stunned don't get it.
The most awful thing about these clips is that for such great fx, pity the actress' and actor's ability sucked.
Unless of course, it was a demo to show the fx?[This message has been edited by SeerSavant (edited 03-23-2000).] |
gore master
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posted 03-23-2000 03:30 PM
for the scene I mentioned from savini's NOTLD. They had an entire foam rubber chest. When the chest was created they built it up quite a bit. But the artist who did this said you couldn't notice how much they built up the chest on screen. I still think some cg was used. the sprays were cg because I saw them in slow motion. |
Mr. Sable
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posted 03-23-2000 05:15 PM
You think maybe it was done "live" with CG augmentation? |
BrainPanBlues
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posted 03-24-2000 11:34 PM
Im going to have to refer to the "Judge Cal" snuff episode on parsetv, as I did in the head shot post above. The guy on the show, I believe, talks a little about them. The entry wounds are CG, but of course the blood on the wall isn't, if those are the clips you are talking about, I didn't follow the links (shame on me).
I had the misfortune of checking out the creator's website, I guess it takes all kinds : ) |
